SE7 - Who Are the Mongols?

[00:00:25] Hello and welcome to the Russian Empire History Podcast. Today we have a special episode on who are the Mongols, and I'm joined by Jack Wilson,

[00:00:37] professionally known as the Jack Maester. He has numerous materials on the Mongols across the internet,

[00:00:45] and would you like to start off by introducing yourself, Jerry?

[00:00:49] I'm certainly glad to thank you very much for the kind words.

[00:00:54] Yes, I have been writing publicly about the Mongol Empire online since 2016 or so.

[00:01:01] I'm currently in the third year of my PhD at Central European University in Vienna.

[00:01:08] Austria and the majority of my PhD research and my published articles mostly focused on the Golden Board,

[00:01:19] a Mongol-Rubes assessor state ruling, what is now the Russian Federation Ukraine, Kazakhstan in the late 13th century.

[00:01:30] But in terms of the work I have done online for both my own personal YouTube channel, the Jack Maester-Pongol History, as well as a lot of work for the channel King and Generals and their podcast series.

[00:01:43] I've written for them, I've written on all aspects of the Mongol Empire, all the cognites that early history declines, all.

[00:01:52] You name it, there's a chance I've written something about it somewhere online.

[00:01:58] Yeah, and for listeners who aren't aware, the King's and Generals has a completed series on the Mongols.

[00:02:05] I think it's about 150 episodes or so.

[00:02:08] It was something that there was about 90 something I think written episodes, I get I wrote,

[00:02:15] and then the remainder are interviews I did with historians archaeologists.

[00:02:23] Yeah, so if you want more detailed and you're going to get in this podcast, you can have a listen to that one.

[00:02:32] But King's in Generals ages of conquest was what the name was that we worked under.

[00:02:38] I don't know it's still they have another series that's running after that on the China basically after the Mongols or a less.

[00:02:49] So let's start at the beginning.

[00:02:53] Where did the Mongols appear from? How are they related to some of the other stat peoples and confederations that had gone before them?

[00:03:03] Yeah.

[00:03:04] All right, well so the the state that we call the Mongol Empire was formally declared in northern Mongolia in the year 1266.

[00:03:19] That's when the warlord Tamlujun takes the title of Chinggis Han, which is more usually rendered into English as Genghis Khan.

[00:03:30] But the Chinggis Han was how everyone up until the 20th century ended to call him.

[00:03:37] When Chinggis Han declares this state in 1266, this is not an ethno state, ethno state or anything like that, this is a group of people who are in the country.

[00:03:49] People speaking Mongolic and Turkic languages in some languages that were heavily influenced by both who were brought together under Mongol rule with Mongol.

[00:04:02] As we should tend to see with most step policies, Mongol is the dynastic name, this political name not necessarily an ethnic name, although there is within this Mongol polity.

[00:04:18] The upper class is all speaking predominantly Mongolian and perhaps some of them are bilingual in some Turkic languages as well.

[00:04:30] Now in terms of the really history of the Mongols before that, things get a bit hard to trace because there.

[00:04:40] There is always a Mongolic language-speaking element in the Mongolian step, and some of these elements go on to establish empires for example the Raur on Hagenet, probably the ruling elite there.

[00:04:55] In the fifth century, we are speaking a Mongolian language. You have to keep on who established the Laodianist in the Raur part of North China and the Mongolian step from the 10th century to the early 12th century.

[00:05:10] They speak a paramongolic language, which is split off from the ancestor of Mongolian and probably again fifth century or so.

[00:05:24] The Kitan in the Westward, with the events of the Georgian dynasty, they established a Karthi-Tai and it's from the Karthi-Tai that many languages would start to call North China, Kitai.

[00:05:41] The Karthi-Tai is the one who is in Russia today, and the Karthi-Tai is the one who is in English cafe.

[00:05:59] It is often known as the Karthi-Tai, which is often known as the Karthi-Tai.

[00:06:08] The Mongols, though in the centuries before the establishment of the Mongol Empire, are kind of more of a minor group within the Mongolian plateau.

[00:06:21] It is mostly dominated by Turkish speaking peoples, especially in the western half of the Mongolian plateau.

[00:06:34] The Kitan in the 10th century, many ways of these Turkish speakers are the ancestors of the Mongolian-Kitai.

[00:07:18] In this power vacuum after the fall of the Lao Dain, the Kitan ruled empire, that's when you start to see the ancestors of Qinggus Han.

[00:07:29] It starts to assemble some sort of state which becomes known to modern historians often call it the Hama-Kmongol-Ulust, which would translate to all of the Mongol people, which released some of the debate.

[00:07:46] It was not whether it was references to it or actually supposed to be an empire versus just a reference to everyone in Mongolia or something like that.

[00:07:57] In Qinggus Han comes into the scene at the end of the 12th century, the 13th century, he's presenting himself as this kind of member of this step, aristocracy, a guy who's ancestors were claiming to be rulers of all the Mongols even if they weren't necessarily that in actuality.

[00:08:26] Approximately the year 1180 onwards, Timajin is personally. Timajin Han is fighting a war as ends up going against all of the other major steplords in the Mongolian plateau.

[00:08:41] Probably not with the aim of actually unifying the Mongols or creating a new empire, but probably towards this ascensely of security for his own position initially, probably his original goal was to confirm his status as a warlord and the service of the Khan of the Carriot Khanite, a fellow named Hong Han Turo.

[00:09:11] This evolves into Tamojan fighting to be his successor and then finally rather than being his successor, it's the establishment of an entire new polity and that is the Mongol Empire in 1266.

[00:09:26] That's slightly of a different version than some listeners, maybe familiar with the Mongol Empire.

[00:09:33] This has been part of some side work of mine for a little while now. Trying to move past this image of the rise of the Mongols that relies wholly on the Mongol imperial sources where you get kind of just preferred narrative of where the Mongols come from.

[00:09:51] And kind of reading a little bit in between the lines, looking at the archaeology has to say things like this and the image we get is more of a...

[00:10:00] ...temission, the man dreaming of unifying the Mongols but Tamojan kind of a bit of this third way to third rate warlord who ends up rising to this position of alternate power and doesn't have this dream of conquering the world or anything like that.

[00:10:16] That adpears in a lot of literature that 1260, the Clares is going to take over the world kind of thing. This is something that is probably not present in the initial Mongol imperial ideology until probably the very end of Qinggus Han's life after the conquest of the Khoraz and the in Empire in Central Asia.

[00:10:39] And as the historian David Morgan said, there's some rise I'm going to paraphrase here, the Mongols kind of come around to the idea of conquering the world when they find out they're kind of doing so.

[00:10:52] And it becomes maybe this explanation or how else could we be winning all these great victories in northern China and Central Asia, if not for the fact that heaven wanted us to rule all of this and must be destiny.

[00:11:04] How else would you have experienced? And this belief in world conquests becomes formalized during the reign of his son and successor, Oga Daifan from 1229 to 1241.

[00:11:17] And it's under Oga Daifan that you've started to see conquest carried out for the sake of conquest and it's at this point that the Mongols launched the campaign which conquers all of the western steps and the Rusprans, the Paladies over the late 1230s and early 1240s.

[00:11:38] So this is a more story of opportunism and one man out dreaming about creating an empire.

[00:11:47] It becomes after the fact that there goes yes, this was always a point from the get go we're always going to do this.

[00:11:55] You sometimes hear some 19th or 20th century the lead of the British Empire would say the point of the empire was pacifying civilized the whole of the world.

[00:12:09] But then wasn't really the point in the 17th, 18th century kind of thing but it's it's handy afterwards to make up a justification for why you're ruling all of these peoples around the world.

[00:12:24] So when we talk about imperial sources and that this is mainly the secret history of the Mongols.

[00:12:31] So the secret history of the Mongols is the first.

[00:12:36] So what this is for those who don't know, this is our oldest extent Mongolian language written history which was most likely produced in the year 1252 on the order of Mankahan.

[00:12:51] Grants on of Chinggis Han who becomes the great Khan of the Mongol Empire in 1251.

[00:12:58] And Mankah, he comes a power in a very violent coup and he purges the family tree literally killing perhaps hundreds of his family members here from rival,

[00:13:09] and leading a just end the aftermath he starts to set out how to justify this and how to present it that he or get that he is the naturally ordained by heaven to take over the world for his grandfather.

[00:13:25] And the secret history, this is literally a secret history.

[00:13:30] No one outside of the imperial found those supposed to be reading this.

[00:13:34] We have references Chinese trying to re-eat during the UN Dynasty and then it gets denied by the great Khan.

[00:13:41] The secret history starts to set out a preferred version of events which contradicts some of our earlier sources written by outsiders who saw some of these things.

[00:13:53] So for example, it's just a very small example but you'll have figures like the general Muholy he keeps appearing in the secret history as a sort of wise mentor to some of the people in the story.

[00:14:07] Even after he'd died in real life kind of things of he dies in 1223 and in the narrative has in with Chinggis Han and the attack on the Tang with Kingdom in 1227.

[00:14:19] After when he was there during the UN Dynasty ruled by his brother, Hu Guai Khan and then the Ilhanite ruled by the young girl brother, Hu Lu Guai Khan.

[00:14:31] And by their descendants you get sources like the territorial record of Chinggis Han which survives in the Shang Wu Qing Zeng Wu and the Yuanxi, the first draw on of that as the biography of Chinggis Han.

[00:14:47] And in the Jami Al-Tavriq in Persian written by her Shiyad in Hologani in the Ilhanite of the start of the 14th century and these are much more public facing works.

[00:14:59] These are intended for wider audiences that the Jami Al-Tavriq was literally intended to have a copy in every city in town of the Empire.

[00:15:09] And these you set out are preferred stand-ur-by-sene artyas which trim some of these embarrassing bits for so for example the capture of Chinggis Han's first wife, Borta by the Americans in the secret history.

[00:15:25] It's shown or it's strongly implied that she is raped during this captivity and that Chinggis Han's first born son Jochi was not in fact his son but a son of this American man.

[00:15:40] In the official accounts from the Jami Al-Tavriq and the Chinese accounts of the undying of the city this is either removed entirely or it becomes Borta was captured but she and she was rescued right away and there's no doubts about Jochi's legit.

[00:15:56] So you smooth over things like this but when I first to official Mongol imperial narratives it's these accounts either written in the Mongol language or written in Persian Chinese other local languages by people working for the Mongol government and often expressly ordered to make these things.

[00:16:16] By the Mongols and a lot of these works we can even tell are sometimes very poor translations even directly from now lost Mongol origin.

[00:16:29] So we've had this empire appear by chance and I think it expands because it's central Asia first yeah against the Irishman.

[00:16:44] Did this happen because the Shah executed the messengers of from the Mongols like the old story.

[00:16:54] Yes, and no that's kind of the end of a long running series of off offenses.

[00:17:02] So the tourism Shah uncle massacres a caravan of merchants that sing this on sends to the horizontal empire.

[00:17:14] Contacts between the tourism empire and the Mongols that started in 1215 with the sending of merchants and you have this willingness on both sides to have this exchange of trade.

[00:17:25] But the tourism Shah apparently is and this is according to some accounts that are a little later in the guy who says that says he heard it from a guy who knew a guy who worked for the Shah taking with a bit of a grain of salt but it says that the tourism Shah actually has own dream of conquering Northern China and sing this on just snatched it first from him.

[00:17:50] But he was just about to do it if shing is on him and done it first so that there's some sort of animosity about this but.

[00:17:59] So this trade connection starts 1215 in about 1218 or so you have two events happen.

[00:18:10] First okay we don't know the exact chronology it's a bit murky in the sources but one of you events is this massacre or char.

[00:18:18] Today ruins in northern Kazakhstan and this was this massive trade caravan of merchants sent from China's on about 450 individuals who arrive at a char which is governed by the shawl as uncle who in some sources he does this on.

[00:18:35] The order of the shawl and some is kind of on his own account he kills all of the merchants in this embassy and then shing is on sends on voice to demand.

[00:18:48] That the horizontal shawl, plummet, send over the governor of O'Char to the Mongols for punishment but Muhammad can't do that's because that's his uncle and he might have overdred it anyways and.

[00:19:04] There's a bit of back and forth in the result of this is shawl Muhammad killing these on voice.

[00:19:11] At the same time as this again similar time.

[00:19:16] Chingas Hans oldest son Jochi in the famous general sube de subeau Thai you might see his name rendered as but subeaukadi probably the closest to the 13th century pronunciation in Mongolian.

[00:19:29] They have just traveled across the steps of Kazakhstan around the arrow sea to fight a group of markets of these.

[00:19:38] The enemies of the Mongols who have fled the rise of Chingas Hans across the steps shot short shelter with can we keep track.

[00:19:49] In western Kazakhstan so Jochi subeau Thai go defeat them and on their way back they get caught by an army under shawl Muhammad.

[00:20:02] Who confronts them Jochi and subeau Thai saying hey we have not been given permission by Chingas Hans to fight you just give us free passage.

[00:20:11] Shawl Muhammad again it's kind of murky and the sources he's a very paranoid man and a very aggressive expansionistic man and it seems he finds some sort of excuse just to attack them.

[00:20:24] And it's a bit of a indecisive encounter no one really wins and the Mongols leave undercover of darkness seems probably the horizmians had the better of the encounter but it was an alt right victory.

[00:20:39] The horizm shawl returns back to his empire and this is like and probably a little after the mass corridor char and Muhammad is already kind of foreseen this Mongol invasion happening and he's like alright I'm just going to get in one hits of high hand at the same time as all this.

[00:21:00] The empire of karatai we mentioned this a few minutes ago this had been a buffer state between the horizm shawl in it was back as to on Iran and the Mongols among Gholia so karatai is ruling.

[00:21:13] What we call today since Jan Eastern Kazakhstan this kind of collapses over 12th 18 or 1219 the Mongols annex eastern part and the horizm shawl annexes the western part.

[00:21:29] So the result of this murder of disonvoys the battle between the horizm shawl in jocchi.

[00:21:37] This is all happening while the horizmian empire and Mongol empire become direct neighbors so now they're directly bordering each other and shing is on from his point of view he's hearing all these things that the horizm shawl is doing.

[00:21:52] And he's finding out they've just become neighbors and he's kind of seeing the horizm shawl as this very aggressive guy making these looks like opening maneuvers of a war.

[00:22:05] So now that they're actually bordering each other he thinks the shawl might just invade his territory maybe he's even heard these rumors of the shawl wanting to rule northern china so shing this on decides alright.

[00:22:19] As we'd say in hockey in Canada get your retaliation in first.

[00:22:25] So shing this on picks up his troops he sends the final round of messengers to the shawl saying look you've brought this on yourself and I'm coming on this is my declaration of war and they set out at the end of 1219.

[00:22:38] And by the end of 1220 the horizmian empire is largely collapsed and the shawl has died on an island in the castle you can see.

[00:22:48] Alright yes so we often hear that the step people would be motivated by the need for loot and trade to support the social organization with the warrior culture and everything where the Mongols also.

[00:23:08] If I could still trade at this point looking to expand trade or was it more trying a security issue of.

[00:23:17] You know putting down their neighbors.

[00:23:20] It's it's both in a ways because a lot of these things are often related and especially in a medieval mindset the idea of free trade doesn't.

[00:23:32] Quite the existence in the same way that we have it now so often trade is perceived of in getting these.

[00:23:40] A favorable react or favorable relationship for your side and especially in this East Asian Chinese kind of view of it you can only have trade when you have.

[00:23:55] The unique have it expressed as tribute right there is no actual trade it's everyone coming to submit to the.

[00:24:04] The kind of kind of the kind of kind of kind of.

[00:24:10] But the Mongols they pick up this view at a certain point in Mongols the way their.

[00:24:22] The idea that you can only be either in submission to the Mongols or in rebellion against them there is no third position.

[00:24:34] So you cannot just trade with us you have to have submitted to us and then we can trade.

[00:24:40] This idea of doesn't appear to be present during the lifetime of Chingus Han who is.

[00:24:47] And as we can tell there's a lot of sources about these are really.

[00:24:50] Mongols are as we can contact Britain from people in the horizon and empire people outside of a people from the Mongol point of view it really looks like.

[00:24:59] Chingus Han's idea was just to have these trade connections with the horizontal.

[00:25:05] And that there wasn't necessarily a militaristic side to it.

[00:25:10] But we are rich and this transforms dramatically as with what I've just explained with the deaths of the merchants and then they ensuing Mongol conquest of tourism.

[00:25:22] And after that then it's very much you can't just trade with us you have to be submitted to us.

[00:25:30] Now in terms of looting though this is always a key part of how these armies function because there is no salary or payment for these troops the only way these troops.

[00:25:44] Receive any sort of recompense for the fighting they do is with the looting after the battle and this actually becomes an important part of.

[00:25:53] How the Mongols kind of structure their armies about so so.

[00:26:00] They have a lot of these these episodes and tales and anecdotes of how Chingus Han is so wise and he passes these regulations let's say no one can break rank to loot before the battle is done and you can only loot once I have given the word to do so.

[00:26:18] And it's kind of the episode they used to demonstrate this is how Chingus Han's own family members is uncles cousin.

[00:26:27] They ignored his order loot anyway they punishes them and takes everything that they had taken so the way the army works.

[00:26:37] They defeat the enemy you we round them up and you execute them whatever and at that point the order is given to loot in which case they collect everything from the city from the battlefield from the camp whatever.

[00:26:51] And organize this into large piles.

[00:26:54] And then an allotment is made this is distributed a certain amount goes to the commanding officer someissants to the cons someissants to even the ministers back in Mongolia receiving a share of the loot and then after that the loot is then distributed in.

[00:27:15] And the freedom amounts to the troops to the part in the battle so the looting is.

[00:27:22] Basically a key part of this exchange where the troops are told hey you suffer all sorts of depredations you know all these horrible enemies and then and the environments going around the world.

[00:27:34] But in exchange you can trust that you will get something out of this at the end of the battle that you will always be rewarded for.

[00:27:41] The loyal service that has merit.

[00:27:45] I share of the treasures be it slave silks or animals you need it.

[00:27:53] So this sounds like a pretty organized system so how much of a state that the Mongols have at the beginning you know in the steps.

[00:28:04] It's often said that different people's with different federations were developed a state depending on how much pressure they were under from the seven very.

[00:28:13] Civilizations they were dealing with the kipchacks never really developed one of us to how organized were the Mongols.

[00:28:24] Pretty much by the time of the declaration of the empire we have a.

[00:28:32] Our rather rigid structure developing you already have the use of written language this is as script is adopted in about 124 after the feet of.

[00:28:42] The 125 I guess after the feet of the nimon on tonight.

[00:28:49] So this is one of the larger Turkish speaking confederations in western Mongolia kind around the all time mountains and they already had the use of the oil your script for their language.

[00:29:01] And they use the force of chancellor chance theory purposes so writing on the crees of their con tax registers and making official your like so that is garlic and Mongolian.

[00:29:15] So these are the kind of official orders of the con which are then stamped with his seal to mark them as legitimate and the Mongols when should changes on learns of this system he has it explained.

[00:29:27] He does he jumps on it right away in order that's taught to his sons and officers and has it adapted for the Mongolian language so the emp when the empires established there is already a.

[00:29:40] Of colonel of an actual administration in there you have.

[00:29:47] The cons bodyguard the caching is not just he is bodyguard on the field but it also serves as nucleus for the administration of the empire because the members of the caching are.

[00:30:00] So in all your time around the con there is household there to once you provide.

[00:30:05] I could take care of his food and animals and clothing and his court and stuff but they are also assigned to.

[00:30:13] The government territories on his behalf to conduct senses there is a position within the caching called the bichick sheep so describes these are guys whose job is entirely just to write down.

[00:30:27] What the con says the send his orders around and as the empire expands and you get this more of an actual civilian government for assessing and ruling.

[00:30:40] The conquered territories across all of Asia.

[00:30:44] This is formalizing the 1230s.

[00:30:47] It kind of based on the model of the secretariat system chain in Chinese secretariat system the way that Chinese territories are governed this is adapted on a large scale for the Mongol empire.

[00:31:01] And thus so you have these branch secretariat essentially.

[00:31:04] And we are also serving as these massive provinces so you have the north China secretariat essentially just a secretariat.

[00:31:13] A West Asia secretariat and that initially the Rusprans of Paladies are a part of this but they get their own secretariat at the end of the 1250s.

[00:31:25] And all of these secretariat answer to the central secretariat which is the cons household in Mongolia proper situated in Harhoram.

[00:31:35] Caracorum the Mongol imperial capital on the Orphan river valley and essential secretariat secretariat.

[00:32:12] As the prime minister of the Mongol empire from about 1229 until we start to the 1250s.

[00:32:20] So the early empire has these kernels that eventually become a full fledged administrative system with these chancelaries scribes.

[00:32:33] They conduct senses of the entire population of the Mongol empire, their senses taken of the Ruslands and they have hold apartments whose job is just to translate these orders of the con orders of the secretariat into the various languages of the empire so that this information can be promulgated.

[00:32:55] And collect the tax registries and millions of things like this. It's fascinating so to watch them in real time, figure out how to run the world just about.

[00:33:08] You know, yeah, little this. We miss as quite a substantial organisation and what about the military side of it. Obviously the Mongols seem to have been the most successful at the step in place that emerged, how are they similar and how are they different to some of the other people that came out.

[00:33:36] So so in terms of general equipment and the way that they are fighting.

[00:33:44] Most of this has evolved by the 6th century of the common era, 7th century. So that is the Mongols and compared to the earliest nomads like the Skivians or the the Hunnul or the Huns.

[00:34:03] The Hunnul these people are fighting with stirrups for example. They had 10 to have quite heavy bows.

[00:34:10] But by the about the 6th century you have the full development of the stirrups or the paired stirrups, the tree saddle of fully fledged nomadic heavy cowsery.

[00:34:25] And the light type of bows at the Mongols of the 13th century use all of these are kind of in place by the 6th century. So from a certain technological standpoint, the Mongols of the 13th century are basically fighting in the same style as nomads for the previous 600 years.

[00:34:45] And now this is a very effective means of fighting. Like in general, this is why it's kind of one of the predominant means of warfare in the world up until the 16th century or so.

[00:35:01] What makes the Mongols stand out compared to these other earlier nomadic empires is right from the start you see a mass employment of nomadic military forces.

[00:35:15] So as early as, so you're now I think 1216 there is more Chinese what we call Chinese fighting on behalf of the Mongols in China than there are Mongols fighting in China.

[00:35:34] Like they are tens of not hundreds of thousands of Hong Chinese fighting in Mongol service and they're bringing with them their siege technology which the Mongols pick up immediately.

[00:35:49] The, the, you go they go from not knowing how to take a city in a 129 to within four years of that.

[00:35:59] They're making their own catapults and ladders and bashing rounds and all of these things.

[00:36:05] And they take the lessons that they learn in the fighting in China and they apply this to everywhere they face across in the west.

[00:36:15] And this willingness to immediately pick up weapons, technology, manpower ideas about warfare is probably the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the greatest distinction between them in earlier nomadic peoples.

[00:36:30] Not that early nomadic peoples didn't like to do this. They certainly needed, but none of them do it on the scale that's the Chingusit state does one of the things they seem to pick up.

[00:36:41] And so it's kind of hard to trace the sources is gunpowder weapon.

[00:36:46] This is hard to trace on the sources because it's so new no one has a word for it, so no one really knows how to describe it when they encounter it.

[00:36:55] But it seems the Mongols are even bringing this with them in some small amount, even perhaps even on the western campaign of Jochi, sorry I bought you and super die conquerors the Rusprins.

[00:37:06] And there's a couple of references which during that campaign, which some people have interpreted as references the gunpowder weaponry being used.

[00:37:18] And we have kind of more direct statements that I'm even using cannons or handguns, especially in the wars in China where they have a lot of access to getting more the gunpowder to re-fifty things.

[00:37:34] And there's even a few archeological examples that day to this period which I've been found in that is today part of China but wouldn't have been considered China to be time.

[00:37:48] So that's how I would summarize it.

[00:37:51] The actual nomadic warfare itself is fairly consistent but they adapt to new styles of warfare and siege warfare very quickly and very effectively, and they become so experienced at it that it's.

[00:38:09] You're average Mongol commander may have literally taken hundreds of cities in his lifetime by the time he got to the Rusprins abilities, for example in which case.

[00:38:22] The wooden force of Rus were not much competition against the guys who've taken all the greatest cities in Northern China.

[00:38:31] Yeah, and how big would I because if we look among earlier today it's not an especially populist country when we're talking about the Mongol armies conquering the whole of Eurasian nearly.

[00:38:46] What kind of numbers are we talking? And how many of them were Mongols and how many of them were these other people that drew that.

[00:38:52] That's a great question and I wish I could answer it but the the the the the cop out to store answers we don't know for sure, but kind of the.

[00:39:04] Based on the data in the secret history of the Mongols there's about a hundred thousand people in the Mongol army ever take during the establishment of the Mongol Empire to hold 16 and.

[00:39:19] Some people have extrapolated from that that then therefore the population of Mongolia of the Mongol in plateau was approximately a million people.

[00:39:30] There is some argument now for a higher number in fact, but probably that kind of ratio of the 10% of the total population in the armies.

[00:39:43] Probably mostly holding true this seems to be kind of a good rule of thumb for nomadic societies in general.

[00:39:51] That any able body man was considered a warrior you'll off here it said that Turkic and Mongol language is don't have a distinct word for civilian man you're either.

[00:40:01] A woman or your warrior kind of thing.

[00:40:06] When the Mongols start to expand as I said they are taking in more of these peoples into the army and.

[00:40:18] It's estimated that probably by the 1250s there's about a million.

[00:40:25] People in the Mongolian army, but it's not all Mongols not all nomads this is including the various.

[00:40:33] Sedentary populations who are fighting on Mongol on on China city half.

[00:40:41] Now as they expand to cover the rest of the steps incorporate more of these nomads in the army you probably have some growth in the Mongol in population in part because.

[00:40:52] Early 13th century Mongolia becomes this very unusually warm and wet region ecologically so we can tell from.

[00:41:05] The first year in data for example that it's kind of this this spike from.

[00:41:11] About 1210 to 1230 or so.

[00:41:17] It's like a completely unusual spike in the previous millennia of what we can tell from the tree and death that we get from the Mongol in plateau and this is very beneficial conditions for.

[00:41:33] And we can tell from the grassland production and richer grasslands cause an expansion in how many animals they can raise and increase numbers of animals support a larger.

[00:41:44] Human population so probably the result of these ecological shifts to to the benefit of the Mongols is that it's an ensuing population boom.

[00:41:55] I good 20 30 years after the declaration of the empire that's providing more manpower for the armies and not coincidentally this is in the 1230s when we see all this new round of campaigns including against roofs and.

[00:42:11] South Western Asia.

[00:42:15] And it also would have had the benefit of really solidifying the new Mongol rule because she and this horned have gone look.

[00:42:24] I my reign is so blessed that heaven is even making the environment more beneficial for us.

[00:42:32] And this is this kind of excellence property because it seems even in the 1180s and 90s these were very dry and hot periods.

[00:42:42] And it's like this gives way just with like this gives way they established a long-lampire and now it's a wonderland for a.

[00:42:51] Or no mad kind of thing which would have done a loss to show this is how.

[00:42:56] Hasn't we sanctified thing you empire is.

[00:43:01] Yeah, but that's still it's very large numbers compared to the armies that you know anyone in Europe could feel that time right and maybe trying so it seems the when so the Mongols kind of have two major way of operating their armies so one is called Toma armies.

[00:43:21] So these are kind of.

[00:43:24] Multi ethnic forces that kind of act as garrison troops on the borders of the Mongol empire and they do a bit more of this slower kind of methodical approach to warfare.

[00:43:37] And kind of at the same time act is a military governing structure.

[00:43:42] So this is for example, how most of Iran and the Caucasus are conquered through the Toma army of.

[00:43:49] Tormakhan Leon who is he doesn't have a massive force that he's kind of doing these.

[00:43:57] A bit more diplomatic kind of.

[00:44:01] Not soft power, but he's kind of it's not a campaign which is associated with huge waves of destruction.

[00:44:08] It's a kind of more methodical slower progress and then you have what Timothy May is compared to this kind of tsunami approach and this is when you have a full huge army under the con himself.

[00:44:21] And these are set out to conquer a lot conquered quickly and this is for example the start of the war North China it starts like this.

[00:44:31] The armies of Batu and Suvidai when they conquer the western steps, the Rusprins of Palaties and end up in Europe.

[00:44:38] They probably start like this but they do start like this and these armies.

[00:44:42] It seems are tending to operate around 100,000 to 150,000 strong of armed combatants not counting the families and camp followers who follow in the aguruk the main camp that comes behind the army.

[00:44:58] So in 1235, 1236 when the Mongols are beginning the conquest of the Kiptrack of the Volubal guards of more winds of the Rus and up in Hungary Poland.

[00:45:12] That army is starting in the neighborhood of a hundred thousand and it suffers some casualty losses but also a large part of that army returns to Mongolia.

[00:45:28] In, oh it happens what's here.

[00:45:31] I think it's 1240, I think it comes back. This is a portions of the army under Mimkahan and Guiuk and that they might even have half the size of that army so as well as with troops have to save behind the kind of garrison these new conquered territories by the time the army is actually entered Hungary and Poland at the start of 1241.

[00:45:56] It's probably been reduced to about 60,000 men split up with maybe 20 to 30,000 in Poland and then the rest into the Hungarian kingdom.

[00:46:13] Okay, some sort of kind of moving there. Let's talk about this. Then why did they decide to head west was this just also opportunistic or was it just incrementally moving on from quasiment once they established themselves there was there an aim or was it just that hot.

[00:46:34] So this is the Mongols are aware of something in the west since the start of the early 1220. So rather famously you have the generals Jibbe and Suga die they are sent to pursue horizontal homo helmet and after he dies until 20 in the cast we can see.

[00:46:56] They are given permission to kind of do their own thing and to go and attack the kip track in the step because the Mongols are dealing about the kip track they already been fighting them.

[00:47:07] The kip track had sheltered the markets as I said, and the kip track, King Lee were kind of the main military arm of the horizon and empire so the Mongols kind of thought alright these guys they're troublesome we should bring them to heal.

[00:47:23] So Jibbe and Suga die they cross the caucuses mountains enter into what is today southern Russia southern Ukraine.

[00:47:33] And this is results in the battle on the Kolka river in early 1223 and where they fight an army under.

[00:47:41] Rusprinses on the mistus love three of them and they coalition of various kip track and the Mongols with with draw from this battle their victorious but.

[00:47:56] One of the arguments made by a colleague of my doctor Stephen Powell is that Jibbe noi on is actually killed in the lead up to this battle.

[00:48:06] And that the Kolka river battle is actually kind of a close run thing for the Mongols at first until they.

[00:48:13] And they're going to be a great success in drawing out the ruse and their kip track allies over this nine day thing retreat.

[00:48:21] Then after this subidai maybe with Jibbe maybe he's already dead.

[00:48:27] He starts to return to the east to go back to Mongolia and then he is ambushed by armies under the Volga Volga and they inflict some sort of losses on him.

[00:48:37] We don't we don't really have good coverage of this battle in the sources we only have one account that really gives any amount of detail but a couple make reference to it so we're pretty confident it actually happens.

[00:48:51] And it's it seems to have been kind of an embarrassing thing for.

[00:48:57] Subidai because as you remember the start I mentioned our Mongol imperial sources.

[00:49:02] Well this whole none of that campaign appears in the Mongol imperial sources that's all they simply saw mentioning it's after Jibbe and Subidai leave the caucus so whatever happened in the step.

[00:49:14] You know today that's one of the most famous stories of the Mongols and it doesn't appear in the Mongol in accounts at all because they thought that wasn't really bad.

[00:49:23] Like probably from their point of view it's look Jibbe either way he dies somehow on the campaign maybe in a really embarrassing circumstance.

[00:49:32] Calca rivers probably a little more closer and then the Mongols would have liked.

[00:49:36] Then Subidai suffers this defeat against the Volga Volgaers and probably he's only returning with a very small fraction of the army here originally went out with.

[00:49:47] So the front of Mongols it's not really a glorious thing but it kind of made consequence of it seems to be okay the Mongols are aware of these enemies in the west and are aware that they put up a decent fight.

[00:49:59] And that they're kind of problematic in the sense that they're not going to be like pushovers and this is how the Mongols themselves are describing it in the secret history in the Mongols you have dialogue.

[00:50:10] That's attributed to Chatech and this on second son and he has a line that says something along the words of the peoples in the far west are an angry people who'd rather.

[00:50:25] like dive and surrender or something they'd rather fall on their own swords and I am told they have sharp swords that's actually the phrasing in the Mongolian.

[00:50:39] So part of the impetus for the western campaign that commences until 35 is in part revenge because it's kind of like a subidai he's the guy this kind of the most knowledge of this and this is his opportunity to kind of redeem himself.

[00:50:55] for some level of humiliation that he suffered there.

[00:51:01] The Mongols also considered the Kipchak kind of the the greatest actual threats to the empire because the Kipchak like everyone else who had a Mongols are fighting.

[00:51:12] The Mongols even say this in the accounts.

[00:51:15] They're setting tree people where are they going to go they live in cities they're not going to run from us they're just going to hang out there until we conquer them.

[00:51:23] But the Kipchak they're no man's like us they can keep moving around they can keep escaping us and what happens if they actually even.

[00:51:33] The clear their own like counter Mongol empire on the western end of Eurasia like a pulpin antipulp kind of thing like that the potential is there that they might unite as well and attack the Mongols.

[00:51:47] And maybe the impetus for this is that the king of the crown prince of Hungary and it becomes the king of Hungary in 1235 bailed the fourth from the forget to exact year I think it's the end of the 1220s he starts.

[00:52:03] Going by the name of King of the Cumits Rex Kuman order.

[00:52:10] And this is because a lot of these kum and kipchaks have already come the Hungary and are getting baptized and they love he wants to kind of have like a bodyguard of them fight his own father and the other magnets in the Hungarian kingdom.

[00:52:24] And he's doing a lot of efforts to convert them to Christianity and as a part of this he takes this title of king of the kumits.

[00:52:33] And this is another argument by Stephen Powell and his dissertation is that news of this establishment of the king of the kumits might have gone across the steps all the way to Mongolia.

[00:52:46] And to the Mongols have sounded like the kumits have just elected their own great con at the farther end so we got to go over and do something about this.

[00:52:57] And the opportunity comes after 1234 and 1234 the Mongols complete their conquest of the jing dynasty in northern China.

[00:53:07] And this is like their ancestral enemy kind of thing.

[00:53:11] And they all come back to Mongolia in 1235 and they have us two large roll tides or assemblies to basically decide what to do next.

[00:53:23] And because now a whole lot of forces have been freed up with the completion of the conquest of northern China at that point they've they're actually allied with the song dynasty, the dynasty and southern China.

[00:53:37] But that aligns breaks right away but the Mongols aren't really committing to actually fighting them yet.

[00:53:44] So in 1235 they're setting up directions to send the troops and they decide, all right, let's go take care of these enemies in the west.

[00:53:55] The the the kip track apparently have made their own king in the far west and Jochi Chinggisong's first son his heirs.

[00:54:04] They have been given the right to rule everything in the west as far west as the hooves of the Mongol horses will take them phrasing and the sources.

[00:54:15] And they so they want to do this campaign because everything they conquer in the west that will come theirs and that's what becomes the golden hoard.

[00:54:23] And this is a chance for soodied to get his revenge as a chance to finally put down the kip track and all these kind of factors come together.

[00:54:32] If the great campaign the great western campaign of Batu and soodied which sets out at the end of 1235 and of course over 1236.

[00:54:42] The started at 1240s results in a conquest of all of their remaining kip track peoples, local bull gars the more than see.

[00:54:51] All of the roots principalities except for haulage, Bohemia but that ends up submitting over the course of the 1250s.

[00:55:00] And I'm on and off but it's it's it's by the end of the 1250s haulage, Bohemia today western most part of Ukraine.

[00:55:09] And parts of Belarus this is firmly the western border of the fall of the empire and of course in 1241 the enter into hungry and polines.

[00:55:20] And with draw in early 1242 and they actually heat campaigning against some kip track who rebelled in.

[00:55:27] The early 1240s and it's kind of from the long one that you would see it's like 1244 is actually the end of this campaign because that's when all of these armies finally split up and go there separately.

[00:55:41] Right and well why did they stop because we have a traditional story that the can't die and battle had to go home to Mongolia to so he had to call it off but of course he never went back to Mongolia.

[00:55:58] And every practically nation in eastern Europe declares that it was them that saved Europe.

[00:56:06] So so yes at the Bruno story, argued I dies in 1241 and the Mongols withdraw.

[00:56:13] And there is one source who says this a guy named a Franciscan friar John the Plano Carpina who visits Mongolia in 1246 and he says that.

[00:56:24] This is this is the cause for the withdrawal however we have other sources like Rashida thin would say when the withdrawal began the Mongols didn't know the con was dead.

[00:56:37] And it's seen and there are you into by a scene in power is that the time frame we have for when ergidide so that's December 11th 1241 and when the withdrawal begins which is probably March 1241.

[00:56:56] That's probably too small a time frame or the messengers to have left Mongolia across all of the steps in the middle of winter and found Bata when Hungary.

[00:57:08] And to get them to withdraw by that date so it seems that withdrawal is is underway by the before they learn of the con's death.

[00:57:18] And the actual consequences of the con's death are to prevent the Mongols coming back to Hungary sooner because probably why they withdrew in 1242.

[00:57:31] And again this is credit to my colleague Stephen Baldis was the work of his doctoral dissertation and going to be a forthcoming monograph on this topic.

[00:57:42] This argument is that more or less the Mongol army by 1242 bought to realize the army that he specifically had was insufficient to actually complete a conquest of Europe.

[00:57:57] Not that it conquest of Europe was impossible but that Bata's army was so kind of worn down by.

[00:58:06] These thousands of kilometers they've traveled, hundreds of battles they fought all of these losses and injuries they've sustained over the six year long campaign.

[00:58:14] Now army was just not in this shape in early 1242.

[00:58:19] They're early 1242 to have continued going on because they dealt with some very difficult ceases of these large fortified stone castles in western Hungary and again.

[00:58:31] They're they're type of catapult they use as it seemed to have done very well and things were getting a bit frustrating and Bata's but that Bata's plan probably was with drawback to the steps in the summer because this is normally how the Mongol armies operated is that they would start to campaign in the autumn fight through the winter the famous story of them crossing the frozen rivers in winter.

[00:58:56] The campaign until the end of spring and start to withdraw into spring so that over the summer.

[00:59:03] They can rest men in horses, fat in the horses, back up on the grasslands and then start things again in the autumn.

[00:59:10] And this is not how they're always operating but most of the time like eight times out of ten this is how the Mongol armies function this is what they use during the campaigns in the roots principalities for example so they'll always campaign in the autumn and the winter and then in the summers they're resting their horses and the southern steps today's Ukraine southern Russia.

[00:59:33] And probably back to's idea was withdraw in the spring of 1242 rest is troops at least over the summer and call of reinforcements from somewhere come back with fresh troops or even.

[01:00:02] The big castles and big cities with their walls they aren't going anywhere so the Mongols are happy to let them sit and then come back and kind of take them at their leisure.

[01:00:13] The result of organized death though in the kind of political turmoil from that means bought to never get the troops he needs right away that come back and launch a second invasion of Europe.

[01:00:26] It seems organized sun and successor Guguyuk he wanted to do it but he only arranged for two years and then he dies so that never gets underway and then Guguyuk successor his cousin Minkahan.

[01:00:40] Minkah basically puts it at the bottom of the barrel and.

[01:00:44] Sorry, bottom of the list and he unleashes these huge new campaigns against the Song Dynasty in southern China under him and his brother Kugolai while another huge army under his brother Kugolgu goes to complete the conquest of the Middle East and probably the idea was that once they've finished conquering China the Middle East then they would come back and.

[01:01:07] I mean we have complete the conquest of Europe and then the conquest of the world might even be done for them.

[01:01:14] But America's death in 1259 and being suing the right notation of the Mong Empire over to 1260s puts a stop to that and you never see a real effort to try and conquer Europe.

[01:01:27] Again, except for the attacks in the 1280s by the golden ore which are much smaller in scale and probably weren't really with a point of view of actually.

[01:01:40] Cleating any conquest.

[01:01:43] But more raids kind of thing.

[01:01:45] All right, so before we move on to talking a bit more about the Rus and Mongols.

[01:01:53] Let's talk a bit about how did succession work in the Mongol Empire and you're why did this.

[01:02:00] Regimentation take place and.

[01:02:04] You're how long can we consider the Mongol Empire existed.

[01:02:08] Sometimes it's talked about this something really a femoral even though the Mongol states will over the place for centuries.

[01:02:18] So in terms of house succession worked, the short answer would be not well.

[01:02:26] Just like everywhere.

[01:02:29] It's.

[01:02:30] It's one of those things it's easy to do and practice everyone recognizes there's problems with it.

[01:02:35] But when there's a chance to throw your hat in the ring everyone wants the opportunity to do it.

[01:02:42] So for the Mongols.

[01:02:45] The way it worked is that it seems early on.

[01:02:54] So so Chinggas Hans oldest son Jochi may have been viewed as a sort of air or crown prince we have a few sources kind of refer to him in this kind of position.

[01:03:08] But then Mac, be due due to be on search of the of Jochi's birth and the fact seems to have really aggravated his brother Chate.

[01:03:18] This is the resulting fight between them kind of excludes Jochi from the succession around by 1223 at the latest kind of thing.

[01:03:28] And the result is our official imperial sources tend to reduce Jochi's role entirely as to suit this and remove him.

[01:03:36] But after Jochi's exclusion from the succession, Chate I was removed as well in Chinggas Hans settled on his third son, Oga Dai.

[01:03:45] To be his new air and successor which Urgadai does in 1229.

[01:03:53] Now, Urgadai seems to have been enthroned under the belief that the succession would stay amongst the descendants of Urgadai.

[01:04:05] And this is a belief that Urgadai's airs also function under.

[01:04:14] And there may have been even like old and written documents to this effect.

[01:04:21] There are a few sources stating that.

[01:04:25] And it but it seems with thin, as long as you were in the line of who was seen as the rightful con, the succession tended to be limited amongst that.

[01:04:37] And usually limited to the children of the woman who was considered the chief wife, so the Yakihatu and the Great Empress or one of these why the upper ranked wives.

[01:04:51] They usually have lots of lives and like dozens, maybe even hundreds of children.

[01:04:57] But the succession was very limited to the high status wives.

[01:05:03] And this could still be a lot of contenders, but they're the limit to pool some.

[01:05:09] The issue for the Mongols was that when Gwyrg died in 1248, so this was Urgadai's oldest son, there is no sense of pre-majana truer, but the oldest son tends to be favored because they tend to have the most military experience and backing which is always important for these.

[01:05:31] The succession is very hard to become a con and you have no military experience.

[01:05:36] They tend to also be the children of the higher ranking wives, so this is also in their favor.

[01:05:47] But when Gwyrg dies his own sons are kind of fighting both each other and Gwyrg's widow who was the regions of the empire.

[01:05:58] Who is actually seems to be favoring a, a grants another grandson of Urgadai from a different son to be the success on this, it's a mess.

[01:06:07] And in 1250 and 1251, Hului, the four son of Chingus Han, Hului's oldest son, Mankud, decides to use her power and they,

[01:06:22] We see this in the early Mongol imperial historic odd for you to like the secret history where they kind of make it so that Chingus Han is given a little bit of a wink and a nudge to the audience and he goes,

[01:06:34] But if something happens in these, my air is aren't fit to be con then someone else should come and take the position and the,

[01:06:45] Hului, the Toluid lineage under Mankai and his successors, they start to fudge the details on who can be con and kind of play around with that and the,

[01:06:57] Result of this is it throws the matcha of the succession kind of open.

[01:07:04] When Mankud dies in 1259, it seems that he had probably wanted his youngest brother Ergbirgad to function either as regent or his successor.

[01:07:16] But, their other brother Kublai, he declares himself con first, he goes to war with Ergbirg and that sort of four-year civil war just called the Toluid civil war over by 1264,

[01:07:28] Kublai's a victor but by the end of that period, the Mongol Empire has broken apart.

[01:07:35] You have the cons in the west of Berkha, Liko and Horde, a son of Jochi and Yav Hului and Yohanite.

[01:07:43] They've gone to war over the Caucasus, the Chateykhonite has gone to war with effectively everyone and itself and Huvlai.

[01:07:53] So this is the famous Great Khan, complete the conquest of China, Markup Hulu goes to visit.

[01:07:58] He's never recognized as the Great Khan by any of his cousins in the west.

[01:08:07] Under Huvlai, the reign of Huvlai's grants on Timmer Ul Jituhan, there is a great piece in 1304 and these other conites start to recognize his legitimacy again.

[01:08:20] So you kind of get this on and off unification and reunification and kind of name only of the Mongol Empire up until the 1360s when the Mongols are expelled from China.

[01:08:34] And so that lineage kind of ends up in a mess, the main line of Bata is extinguished in the golden horde.

[01:08:45] So then the successionish thrown over to other descendants of Jochi and because there's no favored among those, it's kind of again, a free for all and guys trying to make whatever excuses to take the throne.

[01:08:57] The Ilhanai collapse is in the 1330s, but you still see pretender cons from other lineages are getting put onto the throne and then removed and the the status of the cons decreases tremendously over to 14th century as they'd be get reduced to puppets.

[01:09:17] Often a very loose connection to the previous claimants.

[01:09:25] In terms of what year you went one of the marked the end of the Mongol Empire, you could go as late as the 1630s because there is a chingesid ruling monarch in the Mongol and plateau.

[01:09:40] So, still claims to be ruler of the Mongol Empire up until that date when he dies and his son surrenders the seal to the manchu, the ching dynasty.

[01:09:51] You could argue for the late 18th century with the Crimean Connikes as the Crimean Connikes.

[01:09:58] It's argued when it's after date of feats, the great toward at the start of the 16th century that the Crimean Connikes leaves, it has taken the throne from the great toward and is therefore the rightful erodaching this haunt and the Mongol Empire.

[01:10:12] And some of the diplomacy from the Crimean Connikes is kind of functioning to this effect where they're using the titles of like great cons for example.

[01:10:25] So, but in in terms of actual entity the Mongol Empire stops existing as a unified single political body in the 1260s.

[01:10:36] But an idea of a unified Mongol Empire is in effect until the mid-14th century.

[01:10:48] Okay, so let's start talking about the Mongols in verse with why the Russians call them tautus.

[01:10:59] So this is a thing I gotta take my shirt off here to get into this. I got too many layers on them.

[01:11:08] So the matter of tautar and Mongol is a well-traged problem in the historyography.

[01:11:19] So for those who are unaware, you will often hear it said that Europeans call all the Mongol sautars, Russians or Mongols sautars.

[01:11:30] It's a tautar yoke usually in Europeans' parlance has an extra r added into a tautar.

[01:11:40] There is still people identifying a tautar to a trombune tautars, lip-cut tautars. They like it but only one r tautar.

[01:11:50] However, it's not just the European and Russours' calling them tautars.

[01:11:58] Essentially everyone across the world has some use of tautar when referring to the clumbles.

[01:12:04] It's appearing in Arabic sources, Persian sources, Chinese sources from Indonesia, Vietnam or the India.

[01:12:15] They are all using an in the Mongol period sources. Tautar is also used. However, there are differences in how all of these sources use it.

[01:12:29] The general tendency in our official Mongol accounts such as the Secret History of Mongols, the Jomeo Tautar yoke, or Shidatin, is that it's the Mongols of the Mongol Empire.

[01:12:41] Tautar was a group in eastern Mongolia who the Mongols exterminate in 12002.

[01:12:51] Tautars in the official Mongol historiography stop existing as early as 12002. They are no longer a political entity.

[01:12:59] There are still people of tautar descent but their political entity is destroyed by Qing.

[01:13:07] They are not the people of tautar. Those tautars are mentioned early.

[01:13:17] As early as the 8th century or who in the inscriptions there are references to the tautars.

[01:13:25] In the 11th century, I'll go to Kashgari. There's a reference to the tautars living in Mongolia.

[01:13:33] He says that they speak two languages and the implications seem to be the tautar.

[01:14:12] The other sources are referring to the people of the Mongol Empire as tautars and often saying that the Mongols really don't like it when they get called tautars.

[01:14:25] Often respond with a murderous rage when people call them such.

[01:14:30] Often here people try to explain it as tautars in Mongolia before the conquest.

[01:14:43] Everyone else around just already knew their name and confused them.

[01:14:48] The problem with that is that the sources don't tend to use tautar like that.

[01:14:55] They call the people of the empire tautars but the empire, the great Mongol empire.

[01:15:36] Generally, the people of the empire are called tautars.

[01:15:43] The Mongol empire is a very important part of the empire.

[01:16:26] The Mongol empire is a very important part of the empire.

[01:16:54] The Mongol empire is a very important part of the empire.

[01:17:24] The Mongol empire is a very important part of the empire.

[01:17:54] The Mongol empire is a very important part of the empire.

[01:18:24] This idea of changing the name of the people to associate with imperial legitimacy.

[01:18:34] This is a very common one actually.

[01:18:36] This is not an unusual thing.

[01:18:40] Perhaps the most famous East Asian example of this airport surrounded station but is the Manchu leaders near Hachi and the son Hong Taiji, the founders of the Qing dynasty.

[01:18:53] They change the name of their people from the church and to the Manchu in the 17th century.

[01:18:58] The time of the empire has changed.

[01:19:04] It seems that at a certain point his name goes from the written Oko Daí, with a case sound to a good idea with the G-Selt.

[01:19:14] Maybe late-toil 30s, he is hanging out in the imperial capital.

[01:19:19] He is not going on campaigns anymore.

[01:19:22] Maybe he just hangs around in the sides.

[01:19:25] This is something I can do.

[01:19:27] We have completed our conquest of our ancient enemies.

[01:19:33] We are the Mongol empire.

[01:19:35] We are the Mongol people too.

[01:19:39] In the 1250s, this starts to get put in the text.

[01:19:44] This is when you start to get the official Mongol imperialist or agfri with the secret history and stuff under Mancha Han.

[01:19:51] In the 19th century, he is a very native of Mancha Han.

[01:19:57] In their view of events in the secret history, they don't like the role of any Mongolian people in the early empire.

[01:20:08] They remove them.

[01:20:10] This is already a very anti-foreign or sentiment.

[01:20:14] It seems like as part of this rewriting in general, he makes everyone Mongolian name as well from the very start of the empire.

[01:20:24] Even before it is a Mongol empire, Mongol state, it is a Mongol people as well.

[01:20:31] Parts are the reason why we see with Bha Tu and perhaps the successors of the people who are the successors of the gold hoard.

[01:20:38] Why you start to see them using Tartar?

[01:20:42] Instead of Mongol as they are after them, it is because they have left Mongolia before they start using Mongol in this fashion.

[01:20:53] Not coincidentally, the only one of the only guys in the gold and hoard who we see as an exception to this is Bha Tu Sun Sarta.

[01:21:01] We have a French-Suskid-Farney ruling of Rubrik who goes to Sartax, court in the 1250s and Sartax officials or his ministers say to Sartax,

[01:21:16] Sartax ministers say to Rubrik, don't call our master a Tartar he is a Mongol.

[01:21:25] But Sartax had spent some time in the imperial court in Karakore.

[01:21:30] So probably he is kicked it up and meant his courts of being called a Mongol, and he is trying to get this going in the gold and hoard but he never succeeds.

[01:21:39] So what we sometimes see even into the early letters from the Crimean cons were example, their Tartars of the Mongol Empire.

[01:21:51] You see Mongol Empire more of this political geographic usage but not Mongol in this ethnic usage.

[01:22:00] So probably these Tartar populations today in Russia, Eastern Europe, Ukraine.

[01:22:07] They are people who not necessarily Mongol descent. There's probably not that many Mongols who are actually in the Golden Horde, but they've picked up the name of the Tartar from the people.

[01:22:23] This is a very common phenomenon in these societies where people pick up the name of the new room and class to show your allegiance to their political system.

[01:22:37] And we have sources saying everyone in the Mongol Empire is doing this, everyone calling them cells Mongol or whatever now.

[01:22:44] So probably in British Tartar peoples, they start calling themselves Tartars.

[01:22:50] After the name of their new Mongol rulers, even if the people themselves were not Mongolian descent.

[01:22:58] But try and instead try and merely keep track of Turkish speakers.

[01:23:04] So it wasn't so much that I knew sometimes see this in some people's writing today that all these people start calling themselves Tartars because the Russians are calling them Tartars.

[01:23:14] Probably the other way around, the Russians were calling them Tartars because these people were already calling themselves Tartars.

[01:23:23] The mistake the Russians and Europeans made was to call them Tartars and add an extra R into their, because of similarities with the Greek Tartars that the underworld of Greek mythology.

[01:23:35] And this is an association made by the King of France, 1240s. This is not a new one either.

[01:23:42] So, you're honest, there's been an extra standing very interesting in details. I think if we get into my questions about Russ, we're going to be here for another two hours.

[01:23:59] So, so, right, maybe we should start there on, I think we're giving them to the people.

[01:24:06] Yeah, maybe come back at the end of the Mongol period and do like a retrospective on the rest of it.

[01:24:13] Yeah, and we'll full start off with the Russ stuff started.

[01:24:18] Yeah, right.

[01:24:20] We do give it what it does. And yeah, so as usually in our interviews if you have you brought a book recommendation for listeners.

[01:24:31] Yes, I mean there are there is lots of great books being written on the Mongols now.

[01:24:39] Great stuff coming out every year.

[01:24:43] A favorite of mine that I just

[01:24:59] I've been very much in the past few years.

[01:24:59] And I think it's a great time to English, but that was doing a lot of work very closely with it.

[01:25:05] He's made a very readable translation. It's one made for anyone of any background can pick it up because it is a lot less diacritics and things.

[01:25:15] It's a lot easier on the eyes.

[01:25:16] But he also has some fantastic appendices on it.

[01:25:27] That's a lot of the way to the Mongolian history.

[01:25:31] I've been a very much in the history of the history of the history of the Mongols and for me who knew the work very well.

[01:25:38] I definitely got some real eye opening new interpretations off of it.

[01:25:42] Reading Doctor Out. We just notes off of that.

[01:25:45] He has another volume as well.

[01:25:46] I think it was 2020 called the Rise of the Mongols.

[01:25:53] Five Chinese sources and their he's translated five of the early Chinese language accounts of the rise of the Mongols.

[01:26:03] My various on-voys who traveled to the Mongol court and some people who worked for the Mongols.

[01:26:09] And that with its essays is also a fantastic resource.

[01:26:13] So if you're looking for books with some short essays on the Mongols but also excellent translations of some of our most important primary sources.

[01:26:25] Those two works by Chris Outwood are what I would recommend wholeheartedly.

[01:26:31] And they're also rather affordably priced.

[01:26:34] Don't think much more than $20 Canadian at least.

[01:26:37] And I think it's even better if you have American money.

[01:26:41] I don't know about down in New Zealand there might be.

[01:26:44] Well, a list of those are all over the world.

[01:26:46] But if you have lots of money then go through the new Cambridge history of the Mongol Empire to just came out.

[01:26:54] That one will cost like $300 American.

[01:26:57] So if you have the money to burn that's like 2,000 pages by all sort of experts on the Mongol Empire there.

[01:27:05] Which is a tremendous resource and will take you a better part of a lifetime of finished reading it.

[01:27:14] Yeah, excellent recommendations.

[01:27:17] And where can people find more of your stuff around the internet?

[01:27:22] If you look up the Jack Myster Mongol history you can find me on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter.

[01:27:29] I haven't been active very much.

[01:27:31] The last few weeks I've been quite busy with some other things, but I will have some more material going up in the fall.

[01:27:39] I'm doing a quite a large project on the sons of Chinguish Han.

[01:27:42] So that'll be a video series coming out.

[01:27:44] I also write regularly for the Kings in General's Channel on YouTube.

[01:27:49] So if you look up Kings in General's Mongols, you will probably find something I've written for them.

[01:27:55] I've been writing all their Mongol related stuff since 2000 and like,

[01:28:00] I've been working on the whole thing.

[01:28:01] Which is a long time now I guess.

[01:28:06] Yeah, yeah. And definitely well worth looking up.

[01:28:09] I've listened to quite bit of the material myself and enjoyed it.

[01:28:16] And so I recommend it to all of you.

[01:28:19] And thank you again, Jack, for coming on.

[01:28:22] It's been great talking to you. Very interesting.

[01:28:25] And I heard a few things I hadn't heard before, so that's always great.

[01:28:30] Thank you very much for having me.